Arc Hydro River Workshop

Discussion, Day 1, Dec 1, 2010

Michelle Tischler – Clark Siler has covered a lot of our issues at TCEQ – don’t break the network up.  We want to have multiple sets of points on the network.  We need to be able to calculate non-contributing areas.

Prescott Christian – Networks – we have areas that don’t drain to the river and yet the area is calculated as part of the drainage area when you look at it (High Plains).  We want to have an existing network that anybody can use and we are breaking up the network now with “proxy points”, and associated points with that address.   How do these networks have a temporal component – is there water in the network – how long is there water in there – ephemeral or perennial streams.  Tell whether a segment is a gaining or losing stream – they dry up because they are a losing stream.

Erika Boghici – I can see probably about three categories of main thoughts. (1) We still don’t have a connection between the storm water system and the natural flow system; (2) Necessity to be able to navigate a network – geolocator – could be built into a web app – applications are all related to the basic hydrologic network.   We don’t know to deal with bidirectional flow, flow in lakes, traces in Lake Travis don’t reveal what way that water flows.

Eric Hersh – a lot of agencies and entities represented here but not the US Army Corps of Engineers, FEMA, and BuRec who need to be consulted.  Love to see Alaska included in NHDPlus – and in ESRI’s work in a reasonable projection.  A lot of discussion today about cross-sections.  Is it measured, modeled, how do you deal with it?  Excited about the “operational layers” a whole lot of stuff that could get jammed in there!!  Toss all kinds of information into

Clark Siler – similar to Michelle and Prescott – one universal network.   Use TCEQ Water Availability Modeling program as an example.

Ricardo Lopez – confused about what are the limitations of NHDPlus… having to break the network to reference data to the network?  No talk about the kind of resources, efforts, tools, needed to maintain the operational layers.   A lot is being done and even more could be done to streamline the use of the tools so that the Volunteered Geographic Information can be provided and appropriately put into the Geofabric of the water resources information.  Submit a photo of a high water mark or low water crossing to Melinda Luna and it is geolocated, time stamped, with elevation and rainfall.  Lower the cost to maintain those operational layers and enrich the Geofabric.

Erin Atkinson – Arc Hydro River should support not only 1-D HEC-RAS but also 2-D models.  Storing parameters, n values, coefficients, steady flow, unsteady flow models and solutions, including the hydrographs and their DSS files.  Build tools to support that.  Build a quick Manning’s equation tool to get depth and velocity, which lead to sediment transport and ecology.

Karl McArthur – Scalability of networks, City of Austin’s network – doesn’t make sense to take national layer down to that level.  Develop tools to update the network and for DFIRM database.  Should be a single network.  City of Austin has a number of departments: Flood Early Warning System, creek flood group for stream improvements; stream restoration and geomorphology, erosion areas, ripple, pool, run. 

Mark Howard – As an organization (Sabine River Authority) we are dealing with SB2, SB3, relicensing of our hydroelectric facility, fish, benthics, large woody debris, water availability in our upper basin, fresh water inflows into Sabine Lake. Sabine has lots of distributaries and braided streams.  An intake canal is losing contact with the river that feeds it.  We need some way of collecting data and better understanding such systems, including oxbows and backwaters.  We are wrestling with this in the environmental flow program.

Gray Minton – Waiting to see the rest of the presentations to see how all the pieces fit together.  Thinking about three main topics: (1)  Data Model – how far are we taking the storage, for example, do we need to keep all supporting data such as n values, bridge surveys, cross-sections or just the results?;  (2) Make sure that the design is open enough so that others can jump in and out of the process with their tools; (3) Wonder how you will get buy-in from agencies to post their data in the cloud.  There is an inherent cost to format data in a usable format, and there is the issue with keeping the posted data in sync with all changes.  Also, will an engineer feel comfortable putting his engineer’s seal on information posted on the cloud?

Andy Bonner – LIDAR picks up to the surface of the stream channel, we may only pick up channel surveys – what is the best way to integrate channel bathymetry?  Flood side – similar effort with HEC-GeoRAS, will they be merged? Will they live on?   If the goal is to have the data and applications outside the GIS community then the applications we come up with need to have somebody who is at a location home storage shed and look at evacuation route, I am concerned about who I am and where I live.   Specific applications tailored around end users.  North Carolina is to come up with custom applications.  Different needs and goals.

Keven Roth – I haven’t anybody talk about wetlands – some way to get that data to be used with these layers.  Considering the national level with a network – the leaves (catchments) versus the veins (streams).  When can you rely on the catchment and when do you need the veins?

Paul Kimsy – Get a rain check, trying to absorb, international geospatial program stewardship.

Dave Stewart – excited to hear a framework of data model to support synthesis of some disparate data types that normally don’t go together.

Brian Sanborn   I was a fish biologist in previous life – and I have a tie-in to biological data and habitat level data dealing with that subject on a regular basis.

Jeff Simley –referencing the information on NHD – low water crossings, cut-throat trout.  Discover these on the network. 

Dean Djokic – pearls of wisdom will flow forth tomorrow!!!

Steve Kopp – pearls of wishdom will flow forth tomorrow!!!   Reading LAS files directly and updating them in ArcGIS 10.1  StreetView for rivers – StreamView.

Al Rea – How do we do a multiscale watershed and stream network system?

Tommy Dewald – The popcorn was overcooked J Concurred with Brian Sanborn on interest in Eric's environmental flows presentation.  (has since provided Eric with email address for our office lead on EPA Healthy Watersheds initiative). Re-iterated need to make it easier to load NHDPlus data into ArcHydro (River).

Cindy McKay – a lot of work is involved in updating integrated datasets like NHDPlus – we are just now refreshing NHDPlus version 2 in 2010 after having produced the first version in 2006.   Need more agile ways to incorporate updates in NHD, WBD, NED and flowing those forward into NHDPlus in a timely way.

Pete Steeves – Oh, the power of being last!

Susan Hutson – there are a lot of issues with water use data – its complex and uncertain because much of it is estimated.    There are lots of variations in quality and availability of water use data.  We have county level data but really want site-specific data.

Karen Hanson – I have been working for the federal government for 31 years and private company before that. I’ve done a lot of field work in streams where we measured stream cross-sections and collected water quality and flow data.   If we had a place to put this, there is a lot of data that could go there.

David Maidment – Some thoughts on Arc Hydro River Layers